Ходжалинский геноцид
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Photos: Shusha, Qarabagh, Azerbaijan
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Visiting Dignitaries
Baba Safari
Azerbaijan, Qarabag
Today we witness once again how people with no historical education whatsoever attempt to argue on historical issues. Unfortunately, History is a very vulnerable subject. For the "outsiders" (under this term I mean people of academic background other than History) History may seem an easy subject, since it does not imply formulas or specific scientific rules. However, let me tell you that when a non-historian speaks (or even argues!) with the historian about his discipline, the best way for the latter to escape from the numerous and astonishing nonsenses and thereby safe the ears is just to "agree" with the other side and end the conversation.   |
Dr. Steven Howletts
From Cambridge University writes in baku.1k.net:
Sirs,
I read your debate with sad feeling. Today we witness once again how people with no historical education whatsoever attempt to argue on historical issues. Unfortunately, History is a very vulnerable subject. For the "outsiders" (under this term I mean people of academic background other than History) History may seem an easy subject, since it does not imply formulas or specific scientific rules. However, let me tell you that when a non-historian speaks (or even argues!) with the historian about his discipline, the best way for the latter to escape from the numerous and astonishing nonsenses and thereby safe the ears is just to "agree" with the other side and end the conversation.
For this reason, I will not even start the conversation with many of you, especially with Mr. Galstian and Mr. Lautreamont. Again, the reason is that you guys have absolutely no clue (sorry for the tone) about the history of the region. What you say is what you read in the articles of the same kind of "history-lovers". You guys have never studied in the world archives, you have never used specific historical methodologies and techniques, and you simply don't know the subject. Believe me. All you are arguing for is what you would like it to be, but not what is in reality. History is an exact subject. It always leaves evidences, which are... guess what? yes, historical sources.
This is another paragraph.
It is the historical sources that provide the researchers with the information. It is the historical sources the researcher make the conclusions from. And only the researcher who uses (and knows HOW TO USE!) the historical sources can make correct conclusions.
This is another paragraph.
As a person who spent all my life in doing researches on Middle East and Caucasus, as the Professor of History at Cambridge University with teaching experience at Yale, Manchester, LSE, as an absolutely impartial side, I will just brief you some facts that are indisputable and are the HISTORY.
- Armenians have not lived in Transcaucasia for the centuries. It is a myth. The first massive Armenian immigration to the Erivan, Nakhichevan and Karabakh Khanates started in 1828 and it was encouraged by the Russian Tsarist government. The Russian Ambassador to Iran, Alexander Griboedov, had described the resettlement of the Iranian Armenians in the above mentioned lands in his memoirs. Even after the first massive arrival of the Armenians to Transcaucasia, the original Muslem population (mainly Azeris) remained the majority in Erivan, Karabakh and Nakhichevan.
This is another paragraph.
- There still exists the monument in Nagorno Karabakh which comemorates the arrival of the first immigrants to Nagorno Karabakh. It was erected in 1978 in Leninavan (Mardakert region of Nagorno Karabakh) to mark the 150th anniversary of the Armenian immigration. Until recently, there was a script on the monument, but after the outbreak of the conflict, Armenians had erased the script.
This is another paragraph.
- All pre-1828 Christian buildings in Nagorno Karabakh are Albanian (don't confuse the Caucasian Albanians with the European Albanians). Albanians were the only indigineous population of Nagorno Karabakh, and they were assimilated into the Azeri ethnos in the Middle Ages, long before the Armenian immigration. Therefore, only the modern Azeris can be considered to be the descendants of the Caucasian Albanians (the fact accepted by the world historical scholarship).
This is another paragraph.
- Only after the Crimean War, 1853-55, when the second massive immigration of the Armenians from Turkey took place, did the Armenians outnumber the Azeris in Transcaucasia. The purpose of Russia's promotion of the Armenian immigration was to create a Christian province in the South which was to serve as a stronghold for further Russian penetration of Iran and the Ottoman Empire.
- Armenian immigration continued in the 1890s after the disastorous rebellion of the Armenians in Anatolia in 1894-95.
This is another paragraph.
- There was no so-called "Armenian genocide" in 1915. The Ottoman government ordered the resettlement (even not the deportation, since it was the resettlement within the same country) of the Armenian population from Eastern Anatolia to Syria because they started massacres of the Turks and Kurds on the eve of the Russian advance. Armenians in all 6 villayets were in minority. The goal of the Dashnaktsutsiun leaders was to provoke unrest in Anatolia, cause sympathy of the Entente and to acquire a statehood after the defeat of Turkey. More than 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were killed by the Armenian rebels in 1914-18, while around 600.000 Armenians suffered during the resettlement. "Genocide" is the state policy of extermination of the nation. There was obviously no such a policy adopted by the Ottoman government in 1915, and what it ordered was the reaction to the Armenian violence towards Turkish and Kurdish civilians.
- Stalin never "granted" Karabakh to Azerbaijan. In 1921, the decision was made to "leave" Karabakh within, and not to "transfer" to, Azerbaijan. If you look at the Protocol of the Kavbuero Meeting of 5th July, 1921, (every historian nowadays can order the document from the former Party Archive in Moscow) you will read exactly the word "leave". So, when you "leave" something somewhere, it obviously implies that it was there before. Masterly manipulating with the words, Armenians pursue the aim to justify their territorial claims to Azerbaijan. In addition, in 1921 Stalin did not have enough power to "grant" territories or to take such kind of important decisions. He was an ordinary minister (narkom), and his power was very limited. Contemporary advocates of the Armenian Cause use Stalin's name, known for his brutal dictatorship, to justify their territorial intentions.
- More than 400 geographical names in modern Armenia were renamed from Turkic to Armenian.
- The first violence in the 1980s took place in late 1987, when the Armenians expelled 4.000 Azeris from Kafan, Masis and Goris. Azeri refugees were the first in the conflict. They were sent to Sumgait, where only 3 months later the tragedy broke out. It is the undisputable fact that two ethnic Armenians (Grigorian and Oganov) were arrested in Sumgait for killing at least 6 Armenians. Armenians are responsible for the first violence in the conflict, which is the expulsion of the Azeris in 1987.
- The first vicitms in the conflict were Azeris - two guys killed by Armenians few days before the Sumgait tragedy in Askeran.
- No single bullet had fallen on the Armenian soil since the beginning of the conflict. The war took place only on the territory of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is the victim, Armenia is the aggressor.
These are only few facts. If you are interested in more information or if you want to read my books and articles, leave your message and address here. I will be happy to send them to you.
Regards,
Dr. Steven Howletts
Cambridge University
Only after the Crimean War, 1853-55
| Only after the Crimean War, 1853-55, when the second massive immigration of the Armenians from Turkey took place, did the Armenians outnumber the Azeris in Transcaucasia. The purpose of Russia's promotion of the Armenian immigration was to create a Christian province in the South which was to serve as a stronghold for further Russian penetration of Iran and the Ottoman Empire. |
| Armenian immigration continued in the 1890s after the disastorous rebellion of the Armenians in Anatolia in 1894-95. |
| There was no so-called "Armenian genocide" in 1915. The Ottoman government ordered the resettlement (even not the deportation, since it was the resettlement within the same country) of the Armenian population from Eastern Anatolia to Syria because they started massacres of the Turks and Kurds on the eve of the Russian advance. Armenians in all 6 villayets were in minority. The goal of the Dashnaktsutsiun leaders was to provoke unrest in Anatolia, cause sympathy of the Entente and to acquire a statehood after the defeat of Turkey. More than 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were killed by the Armenian rebels in 1914-18, while around 600.000 Armenians suffered during the resettlement. "Genocide" is the state policy of extermination of the nation. There was obviously no such a policy adopted by the Ottoman government in 1915, and what it ordered was the reaction to the Armenian violence towards Turkish and Kurdish civilians. |
Stalin never "granted" Karabakh to Azerbaijan. In 1921, the decision was made to "leave" Karabakh within, and not to "transfer" to, Azerbaijan. If you look at the Protocol of the Kavbuero Meeting of 5th July, 1921, (every historian nowadays can order the document from the former Party Archive in Moscow) you will read exactly the word "leave". So, when you "leave" something somewhere, it obviously implies that it was there before. Masterly manipulating with the words, Armenians pursue the aim to justify their territorial claims to Azerbaijan. In addition, in 1921 Stalin did not have enough power to "grant" territories or to take such kind of important decisions. He was an ordinary minister (narkom), and his power was very limited. Contemporary advocates of the Armenian Cause use Stalin's name, known for his brutal dictatorship, to justify their territorial intentions. |
More than 400 geographical names in modern Armenia were renamed from Turkic to Armenian. |
Bibel:
Mathew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
Are these armenian aggressors and killers Who Committed the Century's Genocide in Kojali(in 26 February 1992) and Occupied over 20 percent of Azerbaijan by the western countries, the Russia, and some Middle Eastern countries Peacemakers? Are these gterrorists with their Dashnak Organization, the Childern of God? Who claims that these kinds of armenians, who are terrorists, killers are humans? !!
"After Occupation of the Middle East, Caucasus By Arabs, No One Is Able To Find Any Evidence of Armenian Kingdom!! These Armenians, Who Are Living in the Western Countries, the Russia, And Elsewhere With the Plundred Azerbaijan's Revenues In Oil Industry In Baku, Biologically & Psychologically Need To Review Themselves and Their Behaviours. Azerbaijani People Were The True Humans; They Hosted These Armenians For Many Years. These Azerbaijani People, In History, Had Dynasties Such as the Saldjuks, the Safavids, and the Qajars. In the West, the Ottoman Empire had Their Own Dynasties; both Were Turks And Governed All Other Etnicities With Respect To Their Values, With Respect To Their Cultures. The Safawid Dynasty Created The Environment For Developing and Inspiration For Armenians In Isfahan and Other Cities. Armenians Developed Their Talents Because the Azeri Safavids Respected Their Values. Now!! these Armenians(By Manipulatiion of the Historcial Books By Western Scholars Claim Wrongly That They Had A Great Kindgdom!!!!?? Where? In NeverLandS!!!?? These Armenians Cannot Prove After Arabs' Invation, They Had Any Kingdom. There Are No Evidences. But these Armenians in the Ottoman Empire Collaborated With the Russians and the Western Countries Against the Ottoman Empire. Mr. Schmavonian, Who Particpated As An Armenians In Many Conferences of the Western Countries Against Turks Was A True Puppet of the Western Countries. His hatred Against Turks Was Unlimited and The Sign of Aggressivity.
All of the Historcal Evidences Are Certifying and Always Will Certify That After the Arabs' Hegemony in the Middle East & Caucasus, the Turks of Azerbaijani and the Ottomon Turks Were The Dominant Powers of the Middle East's region.The Caucasus, And Also Some Other Parts of the Europe & Africa Were Under the Rules of the Turks.
The Saldjuks, Safawids, Afshar, and Qajar Dynsties Are Clear-Cut Evidences of History in Favour of Azerbaijan. The People, Who Spoke Armenians, Farsi, Arabic, Baluch, Kurdish, Enjoyed All Kinds of Liberties Under the Rules of Safavid's Azerbaijani.
What Claim these Armenians Today? Are They Suffering From Any Disease? They Can Claim Anything? Their Current Country, In All Its Territory Belong To Azerbaijani Turks. The Armenians Were Living In the Country of Saldjuk, Safavid, Afshar, and Qajar Dynsties. They Were Allowed To Live Peacefully With Other People. If They Are Not Peaceful and Peacemakers According to the Bibel (Mattew 5:9), Then They Must Go To the Hell, Where They Can Kill Anyone If They Wish!
The Caucasus Cannot Be A Region For Criminality, Aggression, Occupation By Dashank's Terrorists From Armenia, Who Get All Financial, Military Supports From the Western Countries and Also Some Middle Eastern Countries.
Armenians ---Who Intentionally Close Their Own Eyes & Ears For Not Seeing and Hearing About The Hitorical Facts ---- Know Very Well That It Was the Hospitality of Azerbaijani People To Armenians in The Territory of Azerbaijani Karbakh (Helping Them To Live Together With Other Humans) Guaranteed Their Well Beings and Survive In This Region. Armenians and Russians plundered All Sources & Revenues, All Good Paid Jobs In The Oil Industry of Baku. The Armenian Diaspora in the USA & France And Elsewhere Plundered the Azerbaijani Money and Resources From the late 19th century While the Azerbaijani Didn't Get Any Benefits From Their Own Oil. The City of Baku Were Resided By Russians, Armenians and People From the Western Countries. The Famous Nobel Prize Founder, Mr.Alfred Nobel (Sweden) And Sir Rotschid Enriched Themselves in Baku of Azerbaijan. These Armenians, Who Plundered The Wesalth of Azeri People Together With Russians, Then Immigarated To The USA, Europe, And Elsewhere. Their Money Smalled The Exploitation and Tyranny Against Azerbaijani People. Historcally, These Armenians Are Alive Today Becuase of the Blessings of the Azerbaijani People. The Azerbaijani People Gave Them All Kinds of Helps To Survive.But These Azerbaijani People, Who Hosted these Armenians in the Mountainous Karbakah's Region (Azerbaijan's Best Agricultural Region) and Gave Them Foods, Homes and Living With All Azerbaijani People, Didn't Learn Anything From the Humanity. They Manipulated All Historical Books By The Plundered Monies of Azeri Oil And Began A war Against Their Own Hosts. They Attacked Like Such as Those of Barbarians In the History of Humans. They Committed Genocide In Xojali of Azerbaija in Fe. 26, 1992. They Occupied Over 20 Percent of the Karabakh's Region By The Full Military, Economical, And Political Assistances of the Western Countries, the Russia, and Some Middle Eastern Countries. These Armenians, Who Were the Guests In the Azerbaijani Karbakh, Beheaded Babies, Mothers, Pupils, Pregnant Women, And the Elderly People' All In The Name of the First Nation of Christianity!! They Claimed They Are Killing In The Name of Jesus Christ! The Crimes of These Armenians Reflect Us the Degree of Their Hatred and Aggressiveness."
09/01/05 05:44 PM Post #1
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
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Loyalty, Bravery and Passion
Personal Names From Legendary Heroes
by Jala Garibova
Sketches by Gunduz
Parents the world over face the same dilemma: What to name their children? What single word can encapsulate all the dreams for this newborn that will serve it well throughout the duration of its life? And so a long list of possibilities is gleaned from historical and religious figures, from natural phenomena (flowers, birds, celestial bodies) and from characteristics deemed positive in the society (freedom, seabreeze, clever) and numerous other categories depending on local traditions.
In Azerbaijan, it's not unusual to name children after characters in well-known legends. The following is a sampling of some common Azerbaijani names and the legends they come from.
Leyli and Majnun
One of the most widespread love stories of the Middle East is Leyli (LEY-lee) and Majnun (maj-NOON). Its plot is similar to that of "Romeo and Juliet," but it predates Shakespeare's 1597 version of the story by centuries. Though "Leyli and Majnun" is Arabic in origin, the most famous version of this story is the verse form penned by Nizami (nee-ZAH-mee) of Ganja (a city in Azerbaijan) in 1188. Nizami's version was written in Persian, which was the state language of the region at that time. (Scholars often refer to him as a Persian writer but Persian was the language in which he wrote.) Nizami's work contains 8,000 lines of verse and has been translated into many languages including English (For a prose adaptation, see "Layla and Majnun" by Colin Turner, Blake Publishers: London, 1997, ISBN 1-85782-1610).
Leyli (or Leyla as she is known in Persian and Arabic literature) came from a rich and famous tribe in Arabia. Gais (pronounced Guy-EES) was the son of the leader of another rich and famous Arabic tribe. Leyli and Gais attended the same madrasa (school), where they fell in love with each other. The couple was not discreet, and word of their relationship spread like wildfire. When Leyli's parents heard about it, they refused to let her return to school. They considered her affection for Gais to be a great shame for the family.
And so the two young lovers were forbidden to see each other anymore. This affected Gais so deeply that he went insane. People started calling him "Majnun" (madman). Gais' father went to Leyli's father and tried to make arrangements for the couple to marry, but Leyli's father would not comply: "I've heard of your fame and it would be an honor to be a relative of yours, but everybody says your son is the one they're calling 'Majnun.' My daughter does not deserve to marry a madman."
From that day onward, Majnun left his home and family and went to live as a hermit in the desert. He found it more satisfying to commune with animals than with cruel, heartless people. Gradually, he became addicted to the pain of unrequited love and nourished it as something sacred. He did not want to be cured of it. In the meantime, Leyli's parents engaged her to a rich man - Ibn Salam. But the thought of marrying him caused Leyli great pain because she still loved Majnun.
Legend of Farhad and Shirin.
Majnun's father took his son on a long journey to Mecca, hoping to distract him. There he pleaded with the distraught lad: "Ask God to ease your pain and solve this problem." But instead, Majnun implored, "God, make my friendship with the pain of love even stronger!"
A young warrior named Nofal witnessed this strange scene and asked Majnun's father what had happened. Once he heard the story, Nofal decided to kidnap Leyli and bring her to Majnun. He took his warriors to Leyli's father's region and started attacking them. During the battle, however, Majnun sided with Leyli's people and tried to help them.
Nofal was shocked and went into a rage: "What are you doing? Are you crazy? My people are dying for you and you're helping the enemy."
Majnun replied: "These people are not my enemies. These are the people from my lover's family. I won't allow any of them to get hurt."
Leyli's father approached Nofal and asked him to stop fighting, telling him that his daughter was already engaged. Nofal was sorry that he had not known this beforehand. They made peace, and Nofal and his army left.
After Leyli married Ibn Salam, she became ill. Her health worsened until she died. When Majnun learned of Leyli's death, he rushed to her grave. In great distress, he mourned her death. The last scene shows him dying at her graveside.
Names commonly used from this legend include Leyli, Majnun and Nofal. The name Leyli is popular in two versions: Leyla and Leyli. "Leyli" means "night." For Arabs living in desert regions, "night" meant quietness, serenity and coolness. Night was desirable after the heat of the day. The concept of "night" did not have evil or sinister connotations.
Curiously, Majnun, meaning "madman" is also a very popular name. Despite his insanity, his ability to express extraordinary passion in verse form makes his name extremely popular today.
Nofal is honored for his loyalty and his willingness to be of assistance to his friends - a man of deed, not just word.
Farhad and Shirin
Farhad (far-HAHD), a young craftsman, and Shirin (she-REEN), the sister of the queen, were in love. The queen, Mehmanbanu (Lady Mehman), was also in love with Farhad but she hid her feelings from everyone in deference to her sister whom she loved very much.
Then one day, Mehmanbanu invited Farhad to the palace and told him: "If you really love my sister and want to marry her, you must successfully carry out the following task: There is no water in the area and this is causing great anxiety for our people. We know there is water deep within the mountain. Break open those rocks and clear a channel so that the water will surge forth."
Farhad agreed. He worked night and day for many months which stretched into years. Finally, he succeeded in creating a channel for the water. Water gushed forth as if from a fountain. Everyone celebrated and praised Farhad. But, alas, Farhad fell off a rock and died. Shirin went to the tragic site and killed herself. Both names, Farhad and Shirin (Sweet One), are taken from this legend.
Roshan and Nigar
Ali, the father of Roshan (ro-SHAHN), was very knowledgeable about horses and had the responsibility of taking care of the khan's stable. One day the Turkish sultan visited the khan who decided to present him with a horse. Ali was ordered to make the selection. Ali chose a young, skinny colt that had just been born. Upon seeing it, the sultan burst into laughter and the khan became very embarrassed. But Ali defended his decision: "Don't pay attention to how skinny it is now. In the future, this horse is going to be a prize animal - very beautiful and very healthy."
The khan was so angry he ordered Ali to be blinded. From that day onward, Roshan, his son, began calling himself Koroglu (ko-ro-GLOO) and put all his energy into revenging his father's plight by organizing the peasants to fight against khans and rich landowners.
Koroglu then took the horse that his father had tried to present to the sultan. He called it Girat (Fire Horse). This horse would become legendary for its remarkable speed. Whenever Koroglu was pursued by his enemies, the horse would enable him to escape by spreading wings that it had sprouted and covering great distances in just a few moments. Girat could also understand human language.
Roshan, Nigar (nee-GAHR), Eyvaz (ey-VAHZ) and Hamza (HAM-za) are all names associated with the epic of Koroglu. Roshan is the real name of Koroglu which means "son of a blind man," the hero of the story. Even though the name Roshan is seldom mentioned in the story, it is quite common as a name. Nigar is Roshan's clever, loyal, strategizing wife. Eyvaz is Koroglu's adopted son. Hamza, traditionally a name associated with Islam, is a character who in the end shows great loyalty to Koroglu.
Seljan
Seljan (sel-JAHN) is a name taken from the epic "Dada Gorgud." Beyrak (bey-RAK), one of the heroes of the Oghuz tribe who was captured by the enemy tribe. (Azerbaijanis originate from the Oghuz tribe, which was one of the Turkic tribes.) Seljan was the daughter of the head of the tribe. She loved Beyrak, but he loved another woman. Despite this, Seljan helped rescue him.
Asli and Karam
Once there was a khan who had an adviser named Gara Keshish who was a Christian. The khan's son Karam (ka-RAM) and the adviser's daughter Asli (as-LEE) fell in love. The khan, who ruled a traditionally Muslim region, was very happy about the union. Gara Keshish, on the other hand, was very much against the marriage, but he couldn't oppose the khan. And so the wedding day was set.
As a wedding gift, Gara Keshish presented Karam with a garment and told him to put it on before going into Asli's room. Karam did so but suddenly the garment caught on fire. Karam understood too late that the garment was under a magic spell, but it was impossible for him to take it off. Asli went up to her lover and embraced him, and they both burned to death. Today, ashugs (wandering minstrels) sing a song called "Yanig Karami" which means "Burnt Karam."
Pirim
There are several legends associated with a hunter named Pirim (pee-REEM). This hunter understood the language of birds and animals. They were not afraid of him, even though he was a hunter. One day Pirim chased after a deer and shot it. The wounded deer began to run; he followed it until suddenly the deer stopped at a spring to wash its wound in the water. Then again, the deer began to run again, but this time, it ran even faster. Pirim realized that the water in the spring was not ordinary water, but that it was endowed with healing power.
Sara
Once the region of Mughan was occupied by an enemy shah. The shah's army plundered the land, burned down houses and captured a beautiful girl named Sara (sah-RAH). Sara's lover, Khan Choban, a brave young man, was out of the country at the time. When the shah tried to kidnap Sara, she begged to say good-bye to her father one last time. The shah consented. Sara left the camp and threw herself into a rushing river, choosing rather to drown than to be captured by the shah. The folk song "Apardi Seller Sarani" (The Flood Took Sara) is based on this story.
Mr. Anar Humbataliyev in Baku.1k.net writes:
His email is:humbataliyev@hotmail.com
Dear Armenians:
I read the postings on the board and I once again find myself convinced of the "power"of Armenian hatred that seems to have so deeply rooted in the armenian brains. I once again become sure that there is no way an Armenian can put aside his hatred, just for a second, and try to see the world without that hatred.
If they do, they would start realizing that the world has seen many wars,many massacres, and many tragedies. However, nobody but Armenians have made themselves the hostage of the past. Yes, many armenians may have died in 1915. It is an armenian tragedy, since they lost a lot of people. But why don`t you guys stop for a second and think why the armenina tragedy of 1915 should be any different from a tragedy of any other nation that has lost a war, battle, or riot? How can you find a face to give tribute to the armenian heroes that fought Turks and then call the outcome of that fight a genocide. Genocide is the word that can be best interpreted in the context of jews genocide. Compare. Why did Nazis kill Jewish?Becuase they were jewish. That is all they were accused of. They never fought Nazis. Why did Turks kill armenians? NOT because they were armenians, but becuases they fought Turks (with the heroes whose memory you still celebrate). They turned into betrayers. THey took an external enemy's, Russia's side, at a time Turkey needed their support most, its citizens who turned their guns against their Turkish neigbours,hoping to get their country as a thank you from Russians. How disgusting and low!!! For God's sake, understand the simple reality, " When you betray and fight somebody, they will fight you back. And you should be prepared to pay for your betrayal. Armenians got what they deserved. Any country would have done the same if it was in place of Turkey. True, aremenian civilians may have died in large numbers. But my friends, that is the WAR, the war that you started with the heroes for whom you have monuments in Erevan. Then how can you dare to insult the memories of the victims of Jewish genocide, by using such a strong word as GENOCIDE to pursue your cheap ambitions. Let me repeat; "When you try to kill somebody, prepare to be killed too. Especially when you are trying to kill a Turk. You can never get away with it."
So put aside your illusions, and open your eyes my dear neigbors. Life continues. Don`t whine and try to justify your crimes against Azerbaijan by so called "past crimes"of turks. Be a man. Russia is not gonna be there for you for ever. It is already dying. Don`t cause another armenian fiasco, which your grandchildren would have to whine about and convince everybody that it was a genocide.
I go to Azeri website guestbooks, and read them. All people leave on those guestbook are "hi", "good job" etc. Never anything bad mentioned about armenians. We are not obsessed with hatred. No man should ever be. Look at armenian guestbooks. All you will find is racist remarks about Turks, Azeris. All you see is hatred. You call turks "dogs", insult their culture in every possible way, call them "uncivilized". You live for hatred. Compare yourselves with Turks, and you will understand who is civilized and who is an animal with nothing, but a thirst for blood. It is clear from a simple guestbook of a simple personal webpage. With all the hatred and hostility you have, how are we supposed to find a way to live with you? Believe me it is hard. And I don`t see any progress in the near future. You cannot negotiate with somebody who lives in his own world decorated with hatred and racism.
I hate you for forcing me to hate you.
Anar Humbataliyev
__________________________________________________________
Dr. Steven Howletts
From Cambridge University writes in baku.1k.net:
Sirs,
I read your debate with sad feeling. Today we witness once again how people with no historical education whatsoever attempt to argue on historical issues. Unfortunately, History is a very vulnerable subject. For the "outsiders" (under this term I mean people of academic background other than History) History may seem an easy subject, since it does not imply formulas or specific scientific rules. However, let me tell you that when a non-historian speaks (or even argues!) with the historian about his discipline, the best way for the latter to escape from the numerous and astonishing nonsenses and thereby safe the ears is just to "agree" with the other side and end the conversation.
For this reason, I will not even start the conversation with many of you, especially with Mr. Galstian and Mr. Lautreamont. Again, the reason is that you guys have absolutely no clue (sorry for the tone) about the history of the region. What you say is what you read in the articles of the same kind of "history-lovers". You guys have never studied in the world archives, you have never used specific historical methodologies and techniques, and you simply don't know the subject. Believe me. All you are arguing for is what you would like it to be, but not what is in reality. History is an exact subject. It always leaves evidences, which are... guess what? yes, historical sources.
It is the historical sources that provide the researchers with the information. It is the historical sources the researcher make the conclusions from. And only the researcher who uses (and knows HOW TO USE!) the historical sources can make correct conclusions.
As a person who spent all my life in doing researches on Middle East and Caucasus, as the Professor of History at Cambridge University with teaching experience at Yale, Manchester, LSE, as an absolutely impartial side, I will just brief you some facts that are indisputable and are the HISTORY.
- Armenians have not lived in Transcaucasia for the centuries. It is a myth. The first massive Armenian immigration to the Erivan, Nakhichevan and Karabakh Khanates started in 1828 and it was encouraged by the Russian Tsarist government. The Russian Ambassador to Iran, Alexander Griboedov, had described the resettlement of the Iranian Armenians in the above mentioned lands in his memoirs. Even after the first massive arrival of the Armenians to Transcaucasia, the original Muslem population (mainly Azeris) remained the majority in Erivan, Karabakh and Nakhichevan.
- There still exists the monument in Nagorno Karabakh which comemorates the arrival of the first immigrants to Nagorno Karabakh. It was erected in 1978 in Leninavan (Mardakert region of Nagorno Karabakh) to mark the 150th anniversary of the Armenian immigration. Until recently, there was a script on the monument, but after the outbreak of the conflict, Armenians had erased the script.
- All pre-1828 Christian buildings in Nagorno Karabakh are Albanian (don't confuse the Caucasian Albanians with the European Albanians). Albanians were the only indigineous population of Nagorno Karabakh, and they were assimilated into the Azeri ethnos in the Middle Ages, long before the Armenian immigration. Therefore, only the modern Azeris can be considered to be the descendants of the Caucasian Albanians (the fact accepted by the world historical scholarship).
- Only after the Crimean War, 1853-55, when the second massive immigration of the Armenians from Turkey took place, did the Armenians outnumber the Azeris in Transcaucasia. The purpose of Russia's promotion of the Armenian immigration was to create a Christian province in the South which was to serve as a stronghold for further Russian penetration of Iran and the Ottoman Empire.
- Armenian immigration continued in the 1890s after the disastorous rebellion of the Armenians in Anatolia in 1894-95.
- There was no so-called "Armenian genocide" in 1915. The Ottoman government ordered the resettlement (even not the deportation, since it was the resettlement within the same country) of the Armenian population from Eastern Anatolia to Syria because they started massacres of the Turks and Kurds on the eve of the Russian advance. Armenians in all 6 villayets were in minority. The goal of the Dashnaktsutsiun leaders was to provoke unrest in Anatolia, cause sympathy of the Entente and to acquire a statehood after the defeat of Turkey. More than 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were killed by the Armenian rebels in 1914-18, while around 600.000 Armenians suffered during the resettlement. "Genocide" is the state policy of extermination of the nation. There was obviously no such a policy adopted by the Ottoman government in 1915, and what it ordered was the reaction to the Armenian violence towards Turkish and Kurdish civilians.
- Stalin never "granted" Karabakh to Azerbaijan. In 1921, the decision was made to "leave" Karabakh within, and not to "transfer" to, Azerbaijan. If you look at the Protocol of the Kavbuero Meeting of 5th July, 1921, (every historian nowadays can order the document from the former Party Archive in Moscow) you will read exactly the word "leave". So, when you "leave" something somewhere, it obviously implies that it was there before. Masterly manipulating with the words, Armenians pursue the aim to justify their territorial claims to Azerbaijan. In addition, in 1921 Stalin did not have enough power to "grant" territories or to take such kind of important decisions. He was an ordinary minister (narkom), and his power was very limited. Contemporary advocates of the Armenian Cause use Stalin's name, known for his brutal dictatorship, to justify their territorial intentions.
- More than 400 geographical names in modern Armenia were renamed from Turkic to Armenian.
- The first violence in the 1980s took place in late 1987, when the Armenians expelled 4.000 Azeris from Kafan, Masis and Goris. Azeri refugees were the first in the conflict. They were sent to Sumgait, where only 3 months later the tragedy broke out. It is the undisputable fact that two ethnic Armenians (Grigorian and Oganov) were arrested in Sumgait for killing at least 6 Armenians. Armenians are responsible for the first violence in the conflict, which is the expulsion of the Azeris in 1987.
- The first vicitms in the conflict were Azeris - two guys killed by Armenians few days before the Sumgait tragedy in Askeran.
- No single bullet had fallen on the Armenian soil since the beginning of the conflict. The war took place only on the territory of Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is the victim, Armenia is the aggressor.
These are only few facts. If you are interested in more information or if you want to read my books and articles, leave your message and address here. I will be happy to send them to you.
Regards,
Dr. Steven Howletts
Cambridge University
_________________________________
We can read these following subjects in the website:Az-Maz
Sen Azer oglusan, mezlumam deme!
Bu el azadligin soragindadir
Mubariz yaranib, mubariz olmek
Bizim bu milletin torpagindadir!
-Balash Azeroglu-
___________________________________
Her "Shexsiyyet Vesiqesi" olan Vetendash deyil.
Isterem her s0zu ch0zem, dograyam
Heqiqet axtaran haqqam, dogruyam
Men de bir insanam, insan ogluyam
Men de bir qonagam qoca dunyada !
Mr. Gorbachev Brutally Massacred The "Innocent Azerbaijani People" In Favour Of Armenians & G-7 Countries, Who Supported Armenians
January20
The former Soviet leader, Mr. Mikahel Gorbachev, who had studied in the faculty of law, had forgoten the first lesson of his study for respecting and supporting of life; therefore, he killed hundreds of Azerbaijani people in favor armenian extermists, who were logistically, financially and millitarily supported from the most members of G-7 plus Russia; his advisors were mostly armenian extermists, who often encouraged him to destroy Azerbaijan and kill Azerbaijani people in favour of Armenia. )(Sinatra Doctrine
Mr. Gorbachev's hands are contaminated to the bloods of hundreds of Azerbaijani people. Mr. Mikhel Gorbachev was a puppet for those people who made music for his political dance.
He served to those countries in accordance with the econmoical benefits.
He forgot to serve to his own people and he is damned everywhere in Russia and in Azerbaijan. He had committed criminalities against humanity.
Courtesy, Cold War's Web of Russia
Courtesy, Informacia's Web, Russia
Courtesy, Informacia's Web, Russia______________________________________________
Please read a message in the web in relation to the Azeri Turks in Iran:http://www.middleeastinfo.org/forum/index.php?s=a43ce996597d8358bcaa092712f757c4&showtopic=4365&pid=41464&st=0&#entry41464
09/01/05 08:20 PM Post #5
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 4,688
Joined: 04/17/05 04:54 PM
Member No.: 59
You should take a look at the Turks of India or the Turks of the Balkans if you think they look different to each other lol.
Old Persi boy still hasnt got it, being Tukish has nothin to do with ethnicity, there can be Black Turks, White Turks race doesnt matter to us, if you speak Turkish, say you are Turkish and are Muslim you are a TURK and it dont matter if your on the Moon aint nutin gona change this, your a fully accepted Turk. The Azeri Turk is just as much a Turk as the Kirghiz Turk, we love our diversity it shows the vast path us Turks have took acoss the world.
Persi still dont get it, it wudnt matter if Azeri's where of the purest Iranian Aryan blood, they speak Turkish, are proudly Turkish, have the same culture and legends of the Legendary Oghuz Clans, Great Selcuks, KORKUT DEDE, Sasavids, Ghaznivadis, Timur etc etc end of story what you gonna do man try and change History If you meet these criteria you are Turkish, ethnicity and race are no obstacles, who is Ethnically pure Iranian ha, you telling me you have no Turkish blood in you lol.
Here are some Azeri singers of the past
Jabbar Karyaghdy (31.03.1861- 20.04.1944) – was born in Shusha. He brought a new spirit, new shape and content to mugham. In 1910-1915, by invitation of the firms “Sport-Records” and “Gramophone” Karyaghdy went to Warsaw, Riga and Kiev and recorded there his singing. These records have been preserved until now.
Karyaghdy was one of the founders of the Azerbaijan State Conservatoire and also taught there for a long time. He is the farther of a separate musical school in Azerbaijan. Famous singers and musicians Bul-bul, Seyyid Shushinsky, Kurban Primov, Sasha Oganezashvili, Zulfugar Adigezalov and many others were the followers of the Karyaghdy school.
The range of his voice was two and a half octaves. He could sing mugham for 2-3 hours without break. He died in Baku.
Bul-Bul (22.06.1897-26.09.1961.). His real name was Murtuz Mamedov. He was born in Shusha. The beauty of his native Karabakh inspired him throughout all his life. In his childhood he became an adorer of the local Karabakh festive companies. These small folk companies gave to little Murtuz the first musical education. Due to his beautiful voice people called him “Bul-Bul” –“nightingale”.
He graduated from the Azerbaijan State Conservatoire and famous “La Scala” in Italy. He was the first to play the role of Koroghlu in the opera with the same title composed by U. Hajibeyov, and created an immortal image of the Azeri legendary hero. U. Hajibeyov used to say that he counted mainly on Bul-Bul when writing the “Koroghlu” opera.
Above all, Bul-bul was a teacher, who brought up a whole generation of young talented vocalists. He was also a scientist to whom belong a number of works dedicated to Azeri music.
Seyyid Shushinsky (12.04.1889-01.10.1965). He was born in the village Horadiz of Shusha district in Karabakh. He received his first musical education in Navvab’s musical school in Shusha. He brought many new elements into mugham. Great Azerbaijani composer Fikret Amirov said: “ If Jabbar Karyaghdy was the brain of the Azeri music, then Seyyid Shushinsky was the beating heart of this music..” He had the title of national singer of Azerbaijan.
Khan Shushinsky (20.08.1901-18.03.1979). He continued the traditions of Jabbar Karyaghdy and raised them to a new level. No one could perform the “Karabakh Shikestesi” as beautifully as Khan. He created new forms of performance of mugham. Khan Shushinsky is also the author of several folk-music-style songs. Among these songs are the famous “Shushanin daghlary”, “Menden gen gezme”, “Ay gozel” and others.
Rashid Behpudov Mechid oghlu (14.12.1915-10.06.1989). He was born in Tbilisi (the capital of Georgia). He was a great singer, musician and public figure. His role of Asker in the film “Arshin mal alan” brought him world wide fame. He created the “Musical theatre”, also he made many tours in the world.
Muradova Rubaba Khalil gizi (22.03.1933-28.08.1983). Was born in Ardabil in Southern Azerbaijan. One of the most famous singers in Azerbaijan, who had a very strong voice with rich range and also with extraordinary style of singing. She was a skillful performer of mugham, tesnifs and folk songs of Azeribaijan.
Zeynab Khanlarova Yakhya gizi. Was born on 28th December 1936. Graduated from A. Zeynally’s musical school in Baku. In 1961 became the soloist of the Opera and Ballet Theatre. Also she performs mughams (Chahargah, Gatar, Bayati-Shiraz, Mahur etc.), tesnifs and folk songs. Made many tours around the world.
Jake59Have you heard AZERI TURKUS, Turkus are age old traditions of Turks in which Saz players and Ashiks sing Folk Songs of which there are thousands and thousands all written for different occasions, some make you cry others get up and dance, Azeris like Turkmens like Yoruks like Ozbeks like Kasgay Turks like the Hamadan Turks and all others have many many many TURKUS, do you know any of these TURKUS.
Why is it that it is fine to be Persian and Iranian but not Azeri Turk and Iranian ha Pers why the double standards why wont you accept us as Azeri Turks who are Iranian Citizens.
Landscape
Stewardship
Karabakh
Axisglobe
EuroasiaNet
Baku, Azerbaijan.
Baku, Azerbaijan.
posted by Andy at 3:36 PM
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